Was I Ever That Young?

[mrdreamjeans]

The 34-member cast of "Wonderful Town" includes 8 interns. The octet (four young men and four young women) ranges in age from 14-19. They're an eager group and their excitement at being part of a major production, touches everyone. They are doing excellent work, though one of the young guys needs to focus and cheer down:) I find it interesting that three of the youngins (male) identify themselves as Gay and are out to family and friends. They all came out at 14! I was speaking to one of the other actors, expressing my surprise at this fact. He's a college theater professor and said that while it's admirable that the Gay teens are so assured and certain, the lack of a closet door actually hinders them in in their acting studies. Because they haven't struggled with coming out or experienced any hardship, they have no frame of reference to play straight. I'm pondering that ... I've never played Gay for pay ... Interesting point ...

Part of the interns' charm is their desire to fit in ... to be fully included in the process of putting the show together, to have the same level of professionalism expected of them, to not be isolated because of their age. They want to be treated the same as everyone else. I agree. Though there are boundaries. They are, after all, teens and inappropriate behavior with them is verboten. Sometimes, their naivete comes shining through and leads to funny moments. During yesterday's tech, I was sent upstairs to the hair department. Chris, the young bearish hair assistant, gave me a close cropped hair cut and shaved parts of my beard. I'm now sporting a mustache and muttonchops and to my surprise, I really like it on me:) When I came back to the stage, the interns came rushing up to me and the following exchange occurred:

15-year old female intern eager to show her knowledge): "Wow, Neil, I really like the pork chops!!!"
Me: "Ummmm...Thank you?"
17-year old male intern out to prove the female intern wrong : "Silly, they're not pork chops, they're lamp chops!" LOL!

Oh well, they kept getting closer ... Was I ever that young? Regardless, I had a picture taken with the new look, wearing my police hat. I'll post it soon!

Comments

[ciddyguy.livejournal.com]

Ah youth, I was there oncest myself too. :-)

Those lines are funny. Pork chops... lamb chops... All in trying to call you mutton chops for what they are. ;-)

Truth of the matter is, we are all babes in the woods, even now. :-)

[fuzzygruf.livejournal.com]

"Because they haven't struggled with coming out or experienced any hardship, they have no frame of reference to play straight."

I think his logic is BS. You don't need a personal experience to get a frame of reference to play something. I thought it was called ACTING.

[gotmoof.livejournal.com]

I agree with Gary. Its a gross overgeneralization and it smacks of ageism and hetereophobia.

They're 14-19- they don't have the same kinds of life experiences that a fifty year old man does does - yet. But you'd be surprised what kind of skills or struggles they have had so far.

And to flip a coin if they were heterosexual, are you going to say "hey, they're not gay, they can't be as good actors because they didn't have to struggle with coming out at all"?

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

I think Gary and you are correctly shooting holes in the conversation. I think I've done a poor job in providing the context of the discussion ... the three Gay teens are all fem which was also part of the conversation ... We were discussing Gay men playing straight who have never kissed a girl, who have never hidden at all ... My snippet is part of a larger chat, but I did question the logic. However, I deferred to Timothy. He's on the front line and was speaking honestly ... from his experience ...

It is called ACTING ... however, you'd be surprised how many men in musical theatre do not get leading roles because they are Gay and the perception, no matter how terrific they are/would be, is that audiences won't believe them as straight. In casting, it is most often Gay directors who won't cast Gay men as romantic leading men.

[gotmoof.livejournal.com]

That begs the question then:

Do you think that that is why you've never landed a leading role, because of your sexuality?

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

It's a good question, Tim. I have done romantic leading man roles, but before I knew you. The performer you've seen and known as your former partner has always been a character actor. My looks have always worked against my voice. Character look ... leading man voice. Red haired, stocky, facial hair ... not tall, dark, slender and handsome ....

I've been very useful in the chorus because I am skilled at creating lots of characters quickly, I have a big, flexible voice with lots of range and I can dance. Leading men and women are often pigeonholed. They may get the celebrity and attention, but don't work as often. I have always chosen work ... to make a living ... to do whatever it takes to pay the bills. I don't honestly believe that I've been the target of discrimination because of my sexuality ... at least in the theater. I have in corporate America. To tell the truth, I don't hide my sexuality, but I also never think about it on stage. I simply try to do the best, most skillful job I can.

I also avoided the casting couch when I was younger and would today if an offer came my way ... I'll tell you a story about a missed opportunity because I didn't go that route. I could have been on BWAY if my standards had been less.

Your question pushed a couple of buttons ... Mostly, because I realize that you perceive me one way, when the reality is/was another. I've been very successful in my career. The reality is that the success had been gained by acknowledging the truth in what I bring to the table.

HUGS!

fair but unkind question

[tkn1114.livejournal.com]

Whatever the truth to that question, it seems unkind coming from you, Tim, who, perhaps more than other people, know what Neil can do?
There are politics in the art and design fields just like in corporate, may be more so. That's a fact people in those fields live with and try to get around instead of fighting it - which they should. Ever heard of casting couch? Ego trips? I can tell you stories... But the answer to your question really is: It ain't over til it's over. Neil may well have a few surprises up his sleeve? Stay tune.

Detour on a worthy and TRUE point

[tkn1114.livejournal.com]

I caught this comment which deserves a detour as I was leaving:
"It is most often GAY directors who won't cast GAY MEN as romantic leading men" - This is true OFTEN ENOUGH! Whatsup with these queens??? I've seen this happen in the Arts, and in fashion too - of all places!
These queens are UNCLE TOMS who feel that they need to be hard on other queens just cuz we're gay. And they won't cast gay men in leading romantic hetero roles because of their own low-self-esteem as gay men.
It happened to a friend of mine in NY who's a good actor. And years ago in Houston, I dated an emotionally 'tortured' director - not to mention physically down at the Rip Cord on Sat night - who 'actually' expressed this very sentiment. I waited til he neared climax, then got up and left right before he came.

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

In general, I agree with you Gary. My friend's point is that he teaches these Gay youngins all of the time and that they (budding actors) have a difficult time with material that is foreign to their understanding and experience. Of course, the discussion goes further into masculine vs feminine roles, etc ... Timothy bristled when I questioned him about it. He said, it's not politically correct to admit it, but the out teens struggle in playing straight.

gay teens struggle in playing str8

[tkn1114.livejournal.com]

That may be cuz they're just bad actors and have no imagination or just plain lack experience/observation skills cuz they're so young? I mean, if they can't do anything but swish or can't stand up straight (as in upright :0) which is what I'm assuming what the professor means by "having a hard time playing str8" = can't ask masculine, then they're just bad actors.
I hope that professor is aware that there are OUT gay teens who don't swish and act masculine which has nothing to do with gay or str8? That perception is so pre-historic!
Swishing or acting effeminate's got nothing to do with being out early nor is it automatically a sign of healthiness. Just because they're hopping around all Brigadoony with pink-colored cheeks and matching nail polish does'nt necessarily mean they are gay-related issue and problem-free.
Matter of fact, statistics show that ... never mind! LOL!!!

You beat me to it

[tkn1114.livejournal.com]

I was wondering the same thing but you beat me to it. And where do str8 actors get their gay reference to play gay? To reiterate your point: it's called ACTING, thank you.

[mt-yvr.livejournal.com]

(laugh) In the summers we tend to get a few students from the local university. And since what we do is HIV/AIDS related, and is predominantly research, we tend to get very very smart students. Who are very very young.

Part of the fun starts when they're introduced to some of the studies we run. Several deal with specific segments of the world. And as such the questionaires are... very interesting. Street language is not quite ivory tower in its bluntness. And when you start asking very VERY specific questions.. it can get entertaining, realfastnow, when the students innocently ask "so.. what IS (sexual term)?"

Often I run betting pools on the rather adorable ones, seeing how long it takes for them to lose the blush response and/or the stuttering.

But yes, inappropriate behaviour is carefully avoided. Some jokes of the longer term employees tend to get reserved for spaces they're not around.

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

The kids are so sophisticated. They get every innuendo. They are quick with clever retorts. So often, the joking backstage is sexual. There's a very fuzzy line not to cross. Despite, everyone's good will, you have to be use good judgment.

So what's that fuzzy line?

[tkn1114.livejournal.com]

"Hey, wanna practice that show-stopping kiss? It's very important in your scene and could make you understudy if it's "believable". Here, this how you do it: you gotta stick your tongue out like thiiiis... (making sound with tongue sticking out)" :0)

[mikeybill.livejournal.com]

What a sweet tasty lamb chop !

The lack of a closet door for some of out youth is just what we fought for over al those years, but it does paradoxically produce a very different type of gay man, one who shares much less with the older style gay culture I find.

And then of course, they are in NY, there are all those poor kids stuck in far more hostile towns.

But it all sounds like fun, and they help to keep you young.

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

Well, our group is Seattle, but in a similarly welcoming environment. It's interesting to see the changes brought about by progress. They're a good group of kids and I'm enjoying working with them.

Out of the closet/experiences

[ciddyguy.livejournal.com]

I just now read the later comments, and your responses to them. I agree with much of it.

But what I'll depart from is while kids today may be smart and can pick up innuendos quickly but do they really them? Do they fully understand why things are the way the are? I mean, do they understand why some of us older gays/lesbians have had such a hard time coming out and are sometimes more cautious than they are?

Now mind you, their ease in coming out has everything to do with where they live even today.

That said, I still think that most of the youngin's today have not been around long enough to learn the subtle nuances called life, to be able to look ahead and understand that their action(s) now can have an effect on their future, it's called consequences and the potential fallout of such an action. I feel that most kids today have not experienced enough to see that and to understand it. It's called maturity.

Yes, what they are doing is called acting but acting also draws on one's own experiences too doesn't it at times? I ask that as it seems to me that we bring something of ourselves to various roles depending on what's being asked of that role, ie, emotions etc.

Now I applaud these kids for coming out as such young ages and that's good and I can see where at times not having the closet to hide from may hinder them as they may not know, nor understand that there are still times where being mum about your sexuality is still the better part of valor in some places.

Just my additional thoughts on the topic

Re: Out of the closet/experiences

[mt-yvr.livejournal.com]

... For myself the one thing that keeps catching my eye is "ease" or "easier" (implied).

When I found out I was HIV positive last year I had a lot of that same sentiment from people who have been positive for much longer. "It's so much easier now"

People. It's not "easier", it's a different set of issues entirely. While we can focus on physical harm we all grew up with as the sword hanging over our heads, even landing on our heads, there is no reason to believe that there is nothing out there that threatens or frightens this generation equally.

It smacks, to me, of the arguements between emotional and physical abuse, and which is "real" or "more" than the other. Um. Both?

I'm positive that these same sentiments of what constitutes maturity; and how it is achieved, gained or grown into; has existed each and every generation.

(pause) I'm sure that somehow this will be seen as a bitchy comment. My personal style of rummination is less about tone than that, so before anyone thinks I'm attackin em, I'm not. Just randomized thinking aloud.

Re: Out of the closet/experiences

[ciddyguy.livejournal.com]

You make a valid point and something else just occured to me that I think needs to be pointed out and that is while it's "easier" to come out of the closet with less resistance from others, it's often an illusion I think.

Discrimination now is more insideous than it used to be when it does occure as now most people do it in subtle ways that we may or may not be aware of at the time, in other words, the discriminations aren't as obvious as they once were for the most part.

I came out just 5 years ago and had some initial shock, resistance from immediate family and a few friends, though not close ones. Things now are better with siblings as the one major fear they had was me talking about sex as that's not a topic of discussion in our family. A shame really.

So without some kind of framework of what it's like in a less positive environment, I feel that some kids will not understand until they finally get some resistance or experience discrimination of their own.

And no, I didn't think you were picking on anyone, let alone me. :-)

Re: Out of the closet/experiences

[mt-yvr.livejournal.com]

Whew. I've not commented a lot here so I worried a bit.

And as you say, it's a lot more insideous. I'd completely agree with that.

Re: Out of the closet/experiences

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

I didn't think you were being bitchy at all. I appreciate the feedback and how the subject resonates with you. I enjoy hearing different perspectives. It's one of the reasons I write in this journal and read others'.

You are of a younger generation than I am; but we are both shaped by our experiences and certainly can learn from each other. I find that maturity has nothing to do with age.

Thanks for all of your comments! HUGS!

Re: Out of the closet/experiences

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

And they are welcome ... Thanks, John ...

[abearius.livejournal.com]

Just tell them that they're "Mutton Cops" and see if they ever find the prloined "h". :-)

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

LOL! Perfect! We were chatting backstage and we were on the topic of how policemen came to be known as cops. One of my fellow actors said that it came from the badges which early on were made of copper. I didn't know that:)

[bearfuz.livejournal.com]

I thought I read that it was that their BUTTONS were copper. Anyway, the nickname "copper" predates "cop." ("You'll never catch me, copper!")

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

Thanks for enlightening me even further!

[rock-bear.livejournal.com]

are we lining up for some "have you seen my coppers helmet" jokes?

[orangecrush206.livejournal.com]

not really on-topic here.

But we're going to see the show next Friday night the 24th.

How do I go about setting up an appointment to finally meet you? Want to meet after the show. I think I saw a post that you go out into the audience after the show...

I've about to go out of town for a week, and haven't had real good access to LJ, but I don't want to miss you while you're in Seattle.

(I don't know what mutton chops look like, but I'm eager to see)

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

YAY! I'm delighted you'll be seeing the show! I'm not sure what you mean by "going out into the audience after the show". I usually head out the stage door right after the show. I can meet you at the stage door after or I can come around to the front under the 5th Avenue marquee if you like. I have out-of-town company from Wednesday to Tuesday, but definitely want to meet you and your partner! Let me know where you want to meet! YAY!

[alpenhorn.livejournal.com]

I'm really glad things are going so well up there - I love that show.
As to your fellow actor cum teacher, he is clueless. These are KIDS no matter whether they are gay or straight. To already carry the burden of being able to prove themselves as full-fledged actors is ludicrous. Mr. College Theater Professor is dangerous.

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

I wish you could see the show. Any chance Jim and you could come up to see it? I have a guest next week who you would like to see:)

As to my fellow actor ... I think I really must have missed the boat in presenting part of our discussion. We were simply talking about what my friend sees when the kids come to him as Freshmen... particularly the out teens. I have given you all the wrong impression about him and take responsibility for that. He's widely admired, a spectacular actor himself and neither clueless or dangerous.I generated the discussion when I expressed surprise that the three out male teens I'm working with were/are so self-assured when it comes to their sexual identity. I'm sorry that I wasn't clearer.

[quietkub.livejournal.com]

hmm..that is an interesting topic regarding coming out at an early age and not struggling coming out etc.

It bring forth an additional question regarding effemiate men and homosexuality. It makes one wonder about coming out and masculinity. Is it easier for someone who by socieities standards "acts and talks gay" than a masculine gay male regarding coming out.

I mean if your always been perceived as gay (and one actually is)..then there is no hardship or at least its already assumed one is gay..is that persons life "easier" than a masucaline gay male who is not so obvious?

Just a though to ponder for discussion..again, topics like this sometimes are easier to put your idea across verbally than in writing.

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

I would agree that face to face discussion would most likely been better on the topic I mentioned ... I did my friend a disservice by not writing about it with more clarity.

Hope you're doing well! HUGS!

Uh, I get to tag on the cute quietkub!

[tkn1114.livejournal.com]

"Wink wink" very effeminately: Ladies and gentlemen, GAY does NOT equal EFFEMINATE. The English made it that way, that's all!
So, as gay does not AUTOMATICALLY = effeminate, "effeminacy is not the nemesis of masculinity", as so unfortunately perceived by A LOT but, granted, not all in the masculine-LOOKING but too often unecessarily insecure Burrr community! Think about that...
Wink *again*: You're so cute! :0)

Exit

[tkn1114.livejournal.com]

Now that I've raided the entire post, am I still allowed to see the mouton moustache pix? Only here do I wanna be this silly. Thanks for letting me be so bad! Hugs and absolute adoration ALWAYS! :0)

* Hope your folks are peppy again?

Re: Exit

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

I'll be posting the picture in a day or so ... I think it looks pretty good ... We'll see how it plays ....